So I'll just go through our list.
John Barger.
Caroline.
Thank you.
Marcy?
Maxine? Maxine.
Mindy?
Mark?
Dana?
Sophia?
Mimi.
Is it?
Arnold, here. Thank you. Nancy?
Thank you. AM?
And three days. Do you have Ruben online?
Laura, Ruben? Thank you. So we have…
eight people. So we officially have eight
for us that we can go ahead and
So I had moved to call this meeting and ordered.
Does anybody second? Caroline seconds. Thank you. Thank you.
All right. Did everybody look at the meeting minutes from last
month of a chance to review those.
Okay.
Anyone want to move to approve the minutes or are there any issues with the minutes?
Almost Cooper. Mimi moves to proof.
Is there a second?
A few seconds. All in favor? Aye. Aye.
Can you post?
Great. The…
Minutes are approved for last
Eating?
Would you want to go ahead and
Yes, our agenda items.
All the time.
Do you have anybody?
Unless Steve.
Nice place.
All right. Well, with that, then we will start off with me, I suppose. Go for it.
Thank you. Okay. So next slide. So just giving you guys a quick recap on kind of where we're at with our public outreach. So we did, as of
today at 4 o'clock, we had 325 survey responses. We're only a couple weeks in and this is open until November 17th. So lots of time, lots of more pop-ups to come.
keep pushing this out. Our in-person open house had 30 attendees it was held
here in the room was over there. It was great, a lot of interaction, a lot of comments on a lot of different things. We had phones that people could write on. We had maps people could write on. So very engaging, great turnout there, and everyone seemed really happy and appreciative just to get some information.
be heard. We did have a virtual open house the following night on Thursday. We had a total of 13 attendees on our virtual meeting. A series of questions that is available online so you can view the meeting recording if you would like to or if you missed it. Quite a few questions that we got through, nothing maybe out of the ordinary. A lot of it consistent with what we've already been hearing.
about bike lanes, lighting
safety in general comments about pedestrians crossing and that where they're supposed to be grotting so lots of things that we've already been hearing. We still have events to come. So the farmer's market is this Sunday. So we'll be out there. Then we've got the Woods Memorial Library the following week. And then we also have one scheduled in November, I believe.
For the Woods Memorial, you're still going to coordinate our press bed coffee pop-up. And then we are going to do it after the survey closes, but we still want to make sure we're out there at the Amphi Cyclovita kind of mini
cyclivia. So we're going to do that as well. So that'll be December 7th.
I got the heirloom that's over at Dorito racetrack.
Yeah, okay.
So I wanted to highlight a couple of the preliminary, and I know this is probably much smaller, so this but um
some of the like three critical kind of questions that we ask and highlight some of the responses we've had so far so
The first kind of real dig in question that we asked on the survey was, what challenges do you have as a corridor user? We asked them to select all that apply. You can see the top five here. So top one is safety for all roadway users.
then road condition, shade and landscaping, walkability and sidewalk condition, and then bikeability, bikeability and bike lane condition. And then traffic is next of service and then other is just fill in all the miscellaneous things.
So that was the challenge. This question was then followed up. Next slide.
with which of these challenges do you care about the most?
So safety for all roadway users or cursed and old.
bike ability and bike lanes scored second, which is interesting when it was ranked a little bit lower. Road condition and traffic, also a little bit
lower on the previous one, but also the most talent that they want us to kind of solve so just
an interesting correlation. This is just going to help us start to prioritize when we get to that next phase and we all start talking about
what's going to be named priorities
some of these results I think will help us by saying, okay, we know these are all the challenges.
these things are the most important and then within those, now we can rank even further and
the ice cream too that's most important.
And then finally, the next one
is which challenge do you care about? It's which challenges do you want to see? Do you want to continue to see improved? Better bike lanes?
comfortable and accessible sidewalks and more trees and lands
So it's asking the question in a lot of different ways, but to try to dig in further into what people actually want. So it's interesting to see the differences, but also the similarities like shade was really important to folks. And when you ask them to prioritize it, it was not. And then you ask them what they really liked and they say, Shane. Your talent is the head of us.
Some of them, I mean, obviously bike lanes, better bike lanes, that's something that we are seeing consistency.
consistently comfortable and accessible sidewalks. Again, that's consistent. I think our next one was improvements to
improvements at major intersections for people walking and biking. So we're seeing
There's a lot of other questions. A lot of them are more just how do you use this corridor? What type of user are you? How do you access things?
more of just information gathering for us that these are really like the three big
questions for us to really dig into once we get to that so
More to come, those are preliminary results. Any questions on any of that? Did you get like a split up on user groups, like whether they're finding
walking. Yeah, we have that. I don't have it right here in front of me, but it's part of our results and we can send out some preliminary results to everyone so you can kind of see
where we're at with everything so we can get some of that to you guys. And it does break those things out. So we can dig in even further if you guys want to say like, let's just pull all information to people who are bike users. We want to see what
they said, and we can pull
that in so we can break it down by user group.
locations, how they responded to a specific question. So there's lots of things we can do with the results too when we get to that next stage for you guys so
Yes. Do you feel like the results um
Do you feel like it adequately reflects all the different YouTube groups? Do you feel like you're reaching all different kinds of people, people that bus and bike and drive people that live here? Like, I mean, do you have any sort of sense of that? Like, I know it i gotta pull it up. I'd have to go look. I can go look back there really quick and see where we're at, if I remember correctly, like we are pretty even scale there. Demographics is another thing that we are looking at as a part of this and
We basically said once we're two weeks in, let's sit down, dig in, and then we can start. You're asking for like locations too so we can see if there's specific areas where we're not actually hearing from anyone or specific codes.
But as far as we could go down this zip code wise, but we can dig into that. We can look at different user groups and then we can target more
information out to those people. So that's on our list for kind of next week and the week after start diving into those so we can shift and adapt any outreach.
For any of the people on the streets?
surveyed. We haven't done any of our pop-ups yet, so this will be our first series of pop-ups and that's where we'll start to get people who are kind of
out meandering, walking around. So that's where we'll get people kind of on the screen. When you speak of pop-ups, what are you talking about?
So those are those events where we're just at existing places where people already are
heading to traveling to. So that was like our farmers market, the library that we're going to do twice, Presta Coffee. We're potentially doing another pop-up at the
Tina County Health Department. Thank you.
So we've been coordinating with them as well so and then as again as we start to see where we're maybe missing some information, we can go and target those groups more. SunTrain is also going to help us with onboard surveys on the corner. So they're going to write about six. So you have a man on the street.
a woman on the street interviewing some of the folks that are just always
hanging around the bus stops and
Things like that. We haven't planned for like specifics sitting at some of the bus stops. We absolutely can look into something like that and we'll get some of the folks too from the on board people who are kind of using that service. We haven't done like a specific area along the corridor that we've identified other than some of these locations where people are kind of
consistently going to.
And just to make it clear, these pop-ups that you're doing, they are along
It's like they're right on. They're right on the avenue and they're on the street
So I think you're trying to catch some of those folks when you're doing that. Yes, absolutely. There's like a tent and a table and yeah we're kind of just standing with a tent table and as people walk by.
I asked them to come learn more, take our survey. We want to hear from you. So we're out there.
Yeah. And then go ahead. Is the number of of
the people surveyed, is that pretty consistent with this type of
project and
Yeah, I would say that for where we are in the project, we're probably actually fairly high in survey responses, being only about two and a half weeks in.
a pretty big push for us.
I would say that if we could get upwards of like 500, then we would be getting more
We get more like
really statistically valid, but like a better pool of
This is more average responses. Once you kind of hit that, that's how you start to get a little bit more. We will love to get more patrick. You only do it once.
It's a hot button issue. We did like a citywide survey for like SunTran and they got 2,000 responses.
So being at 300 along the corridors
Pretty decent. And Stone Avenue BRT is happening at the same time. They've been out for a week and they have 175 so
comparing kind of same area and survey responsibilities. Get the word out.
Any other questions?
You did have your hand raised. No, I could ask you kind of some of the efforts. You touched on it. So we're coordinating with SunTran to make sure we're doing some onboard ride-along surveys. I think we'll get folks at the bus stops with that as well as the users of Route 6 would be a population probably who we want to make an additional effort to make sure.
I guess what I'm thinking about is because there's
so much congregation between Stone and First Avenue because of kodak.
that when they come around 1st and Fort Lowell and linger
It just makes me wonder if
you know i wouldn't mind walking in on this group and given doing a survey with those folks. People who may not go to your pop-ups
maybe a little bit shy or intimidated about that yeah yeah we can absolutely go target like a specific area. And if you guys have others in mind where you're like, this would be a great spot, we can go sidewalk the corridor, I would…
somewhat disagree with you because in that area they're not
transit, a lot of drug use. I wouldn't feel, I would feel fine doing it. I'm not going to do it, but it's not safe.
So I think the other bus stops might be okay, but some of those areas
They're just not up to good.
Okay, what area are you thinking of? Because I'm thinking First Avenue. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I wouldn't mind walking up to it.
And maybe that's a mental health service.
I think they're just congregating there.
Because that's where they congregate.
Okay. Yeah.
That's just my experience.
Well, you've been up and down the corridor. Yeah, I mean, I walked through those guys and I talk to them and stuff but
I don't think they're cyclists. They're not
I don't even know if they're taking the bus. I think they're there
exchange names. Whatever. I know, but because i'm so concerned about how these folks just walk out in the street
across the streets you know it's like
Why do you do this? Do you not understand where the crosswalks are or do you want more crosswalks or what? That's my big concern. Just from the viewpoint of outreach people on there, it may very well be that a lot of the people that are doing that aren't in their right mind. Correct. I understand. So in that case, there's no logic
that you could pull from that.
Well, there may be some people that cross just for expediency's sake but
me just driving down here now, I almost hit somebody that crossed the street
And they were not in the right market.
So there's a certain case to be made for
it's a little dangerous to approach some of these folks.
On the other hand, there may be others, but I think maybe the judgment of whoever it is that's doing the interview probably has to come into play here too.
Oh yeah, yeah.
I wouldn't say that they do set up like some sort of cell phone one that I see on the side while I'm kind of at work. So there are people out there, so I don't think it's crazy to do that. But being like maybe seeing a Circle K would allow you to do it at their building, not be near the street, you know, because
I know exactly what you're saying every day. I drive by there twice a day to work and
You know, seeing people kind of go and running across the street at night um
it's concerning you know and they you know unhoused or homeless, whatever you want to label them with, they may actually have some good insight and stuff because they are out there all day. So it's not a bad idea to think about that, but to do it safely.
and then uh
Take it with a grain of salt because, you know, but I totally agree with you guys. We have to deal with it in our business.
paramedics before because people are just
writhing on the floor or on the ground. So there's concern for safety. So there's definitely concern. But maybe next to
Circle K, maybe they will be okay with that sidewalks
Thanks.
Nope.
Okay, with that, I'll pass it.
What is our hard stop tonight, Christy?
Hard stop tonight is 7.30, Laura. Thank you. Because we do have to be out here. So we've got a lot.
Feel free to ask questions as we go too, right?
All right. I think it over. Similar to, you know.
We need less time. We're going over the existing conditions in the cover.
And it was very interesting to hear the preliminary results from the service because you know all of those things that we just heard line up with the data that we collected and then we're evaluated
And you probably remember you have been described with
At the beginning with Tokyo has allowed you to know, yeah, you know, demographics
Women can interrupt her? How is a corridor?
then last meeting will talk about safety.
And he was very into it.
Now over here to talk about mobility.
And then what was the phone will be for all modes
side quests.
And then, you know, right in November, we can talk about which one of our lives that we have done in terms of equity
We do something we're doing something very close assimilation for it
that includes all transportation modes into Google and the computer and well very
Super cool. And also somebody, you know, that's a couple of minutes to go talk about
talking about some similar projects have done across the country so we evaluated those
we interview a meeting with those agencies to
get some muscle there so that we can protect here at Valino
what agencies or cities are land with similar products?
So today we're talking about the moving analysis.
And that's something that I wanted to make.
A couple of, you know, brief, I think, Oliver.
But something like, you know, we're doing for this project is very naked.
as less time you know typically you know with less meat, when we talk about safety, we used to go with rashes, and as usually less time, we talk about near miss, we use new technology
this case you know today it's no difference
normally for projects you start taking you know talk about analyze cars
What the liver family, we weren't taking a completely different approach for this project.
We're talking about mobility.
I will want to talk about historical traffic volumes
Normally, we just talk about what the bonus are today. We're going, you know.
When the ball is in the 1990s.
How would that compare to the politics?
the concept level service how do we
Well, you know, well, how do we
you can quantify all of them the performance of the corridor.
Then we'll talk about the nations pants
or the walk-in facilities? What's infrastructure over there?
And then what are the volumes? And we have a metric, something that we can evaluate
what the performance for the pedestrian disruptions nowadays.
Same is a basic test.
facilities, what are the volumes? What's the level of stress
for us very exciting.
biking on the court river. We're providing that data
And the idea is here is to talk about testing conditions, but also use some metrics that we can use in the future to compare.
if we talk about level of service or level of traffic experience that is low, we're probably going to work high or vice versa in the future. And so how we can improve that formula in a way that we can measure that.
For that, you know.
We're bringing it was going to talk about
Thanks, Felipe. So like Felipe was talking about, one really cool thing that we're able to do on this project, a kind of newer to transportation and just kind of this type of analysis is to help replica data. And so what replica data is, is it's basically transaction data, GPS data, data that tells us where people are going to and from.
I can break it down basically bit by zip code to where they're purchasing things or where they're working. And so we can kind of track where people are traveling and where kind of our different trips are originating and then where those trips are ending. And so it helps us break down a little bit better where people are going versus traditional traffic counts where we can just see it kind of one spot on a roadway or one spot at an intersection.
how many people are on that specific spot. So we can see how long trips are, what type of mode people are using, where they're going. And so it breaks it down into weekdays. And so you're going to see more work trips, more traditional trips during that, and then also weekends where you maybe have more recreational trips. And then we also can see what the origin of those
different trends are and where those trips are going. And so Replica allows us to create a study area. And so for this corridor, it's about a half a mile on either side of the corridor and then around the top and bottom of the corridor as well. And so it's about a mile wide that we're able to look at and see what trips are originating here and what trips are ending.
And so, yeah, talking through kind of trick modes, this type of data allows us to pick up kind of everything that you would see. So walking, picking up your GPS or your phone while you're walking, biking, using public transit, it can see the different data for people getting on and off and that kind of data, as well as if you were to purchase
an error.
or apply it somewhere, it can track that back to kind of your area code and use that to tell you where people are traveling from there. So a lot of really cool ideas kind of at the area code or zip code level, as well as the
it can tell us what you're using those trips for. And so it can kind of track employment data to help us see where people are traveling to and from, how you are spending your money or not how you're spending your money, but where and where that kind of credit card transaction is being linked to. So it helps us kind of break out those trips into a lot of how do you have access to all these different
agencies.
soon.
Brother.
Jesus from a lot of different sources and it said they purchased data that is nonspecific and so it's at your zip code level and so that data comes from your car GPS or from your credit card. So every time your credit card is
swipe, it can look at the zip code that's attached to that. So anything beyond that, like your specific address, that kind of stuff isn't allowed to be provided. So kind of that zip code and that kind of high level data is allowed to be and sold to companies like Replica that can see
that data.
It won't be able to track anything. It wouldn't be able to see you specifically.
And tell us if somebody made that trip at some point.
Awesome.
On the left, it shows a couple of the modes that we're seeing people use.
And then on the right, what that purpose is. So this is just all trips that we saw within the study area. And so we see a really high dependence on cars for false vehicles coming into and leaving kind of the study area. So on weekdays, about 78%. On weekends, it actually goes up to 81%. I mean, we only see about 12% of people
walking kind of both
during the weekday and weekends.
One thing to kind of note here is we don't see a lot of biking or public transit from kind of these trips.
We'll talk about the kind of mic facilities later in this discussion but uh yeah so your corridor that you expanded goes over to a mountain and I know that's heavily biked. Is it taking that data or is it not quite going?
I have to check. I don't think it would pull that. Usually it's going to pull seven east-west and the north-south and not pull the adjacent okay so like the mountain, it's not taking that action. The other thing is like…
people who aren't using Google Maps who know where they're going.
you don't have that data.
There's some data that's still there just from the different sources and so
Google Maps or Google Maps. That's just one specific you know data source. There's also just like in your card, you have a specific
I was saying specifically for walking or biking.
Yeah, I mean, just with the cell phone, that can be picked up as well. So there's a lot of different sources. They're also pulling it from traffic accounts, like traditional traffic accounts is really huge.
stuff like that to kind of check its numbers and make sure that those are
you know accurate and so there's a lot of different data sources. So they usually, I'll get to it, I guess I have it on the later slide, but they give you kind of a certainty level based on how much data they have.
And so they have a pretty good idea on what's happening out here, but it's not high confidence where they can tell you, you know, we're within, you know, 5% of what actually is going on, but we're within kind of 10, 20% of what we're actually seeing.
What is it?
Sorry, I'm on this question too, but even if you're not using Google Maps, Google Maps is still pulling like your cell phone pings because that's how they get like the traffic data on Google Maps and things like that when you see it.
Yeah, even though you're not necessarily using it, they're still running in the back data so
And if you're making a purchase and they know your address
They may track a line. Yeah.
I don't want to think about that.
Oh, okay.
Don't worry.
curious just because I see a lot on my street, there's people like mobility scooters and like, how would that be reflected
And this, because I know there's a lot of people on my street that use those and a lot of people are in the bike lane and I'm always like, oh my god like freaking out for them but
I'm just curious, do they be reflected in like walking or biking or
I mean, that's a super question, but I'm just curious because in this area, there's a lot of… Yeah, you know, this is an estimate really indicated water travel mode, around 1%. That's kind of what I was thinking, or maybe the people with like motorized bikes, which is like.
What's that? What is commercial on there? Is that like tractor trailers? Yeah, commercial would be trucks, delivery vehicles, that type of stuff. They're able to break that down. Have a CDL license.
I would have thought.
I don't know, 2%, 3%?
Yeah. I mean, we're talking a percentage of those
Total numbers matter though so even if it's 12%, that's still a lot of folks.
We're looking at like 82,000 trips coming out with just the score or this study area. So that doesn't mean all of those trips are on First Avenue. There may be people, you know, at the middle school who are using
east-west. Picking up everything kind of within that. And so not all will be 100%, but typically with kind of a major corridor like First Avenue, you see a lot of those trips end up using it or touching it at some point along
their common password.
Yeah, so I've been looking at trips under a mile. We have a lot higher percentage of walking, which is good to see kind of that jump that people aren't always getting in their car to make those one mile
trips and so we're also seeing an increase in biking, no public transit uh
there but it's really good to see that kind of jump, especially without having maybe the best
existing sidewalks or facilities here. So that's something that shows kind of a demand
for those existing facilities. It's also interesting to see that we do still see kind of the same purposes. So getting home or traveling for daily needs. So that'd be going to the grocery store, gym.
That kind of stuff.
I wonder if that's is that
picking up pedestrians on the retow
At all, do you think? It would pick up some on that.
corridor.
And so then they're looking at kind of walks by day trips, we have about 10,000 trips
or walking during the weekday, about 9,000 on the weekend.
And so most of those 70% are kind of that one mile uh
long, so we're not saying long distance. Is that per day, weekday
That is per month.
That could just be someone like walking in their neighborhood from their house to their school. Yeah, that could be you walking down the street and back or to school, that kind of stuff. And so it could be picking it up multiple times as well. So that's just trips. That's not necessarily people. So if you walk somewhere and then you walk back, that could be considered too trips because you made that stop at the grocery store or
the bus stop.
And then this is one segment. So we did this analysis where we looked
census tracts and looked at where people traveling along the corridor are coming
confirmed and where they're going. And so we see kind of this is one segment suggesting either limber loss drive and wet form. And so we're seeing a lot of kind of those more closely related trips kind of shown there in that one mile.
And so you can kind of see here that 18% kind of there off of what more. And so we really are seeing kind of close unknit, but we are then seeing some pretty far distances. And so these are kind of the highest percentages of people traveling from different census tracts we do have.
I know 3%, so you see kind of that northern section picking up some of those trips coming along.
So they're not just people living along First Avenue, but we're seeing that kind of a lot.
the full start north of the corridor as well.
And so kind of looking at the findings just from the replica data
We have a lot of our trips coming kind of in that immediate vicinity of First Avenue, kind of those one mile trips or going to work. And originating or ending around First Avenue. We do see a higher percentage of people
kind of north of the corridor using it than we do seeing like south of Grant.
And so that's an interesting thing to see. And those trips are kind of ending along First Avenue and aren't necessarily using it to access like downtown or kind of
or southern areas.
And then one thing that was really interesting for us to see is kind of just that most of these trips are short, not
most of them are kind of within that mile or kind of along the study
So getting into the vehicle or driving segment. So looking at historical counts, we looked at counts from 1998 all the way to the day. So overall, we have about a 15% decrease in volumes along the corridor.
from 1998. So you can kind of see a steady increase until 2010 after 2010, we had a drop in 2012. And then kind of were growing again to about 2018, 2020, and then have it drop again.
up here in 2024 and so
Looking at it we're kind of looking at
remaining pretty similar from 2010 to now, a little bit of a dip but
overall kind of producing traffic.
That's just kind of looking at the form traffic. Do you have any data showing like why those go up and down like have you compared it to like construction
People are getting diverted to first or then now not diverted to first? It's typically looked at. So it's like if you go look at like the recession in 2008, it could be one of the reasons that you see kind of in 2010.
a higher number and then it dropping kind of those delayed effects
And then you see again in kind of 2020 with the pandemic, we saw a lot of travel volume or traffic volumes go lower. And so that would be kind of the 2018 to 2024. And so some corridors, you see that come back up kind of in 2023, 2024. So we haven't necessarily seen that this corridor. This takes more than just like one day or one season into account. It looks like kind of the full year.
Does it look at things like there are fewer businesses open, there's a lot more vacancy along First Avenue than
there was 10 years ago or 20 years ago when I moved here.
it seems like the decline of commercial
establishments along First Avenue would attribute to that as well.
Did you want to take that, Patrick? That's that question specifically but i'll just
And so this is a trend that we've seen across kind of the midtown in the city. So it's not only affecting First Avenue where we've seen a similar trend of traffic reduction since the late 1990s. A lot of our midtown corridors are kind of going in that same direction, have been flat or decreasing.
Which is kind of challenging a lot of our classic assumptions of kind of continuous growth, right, and planning for future growth
It's not the case on the further east side, further north, kind of on the collar of the community, but in the heart of the city, 101st Avenues, we have seen that decrease. And that could just be a function of where the jobs are moving in our region, the nature of trips, a lot of the trips are being more localized. So as commercial is chasing residential to other areas of the city, it's changing those trip patterns. Certainly post-pandemic, we've seen an increase in work from home. And these numbers don't have to be huge.
if it's three days a week and 5% of the workforce, that's going to have an impact on how our traffic operates. So I think it's a combination of factors, but it's not unique to First Avenue.
Thank you.
So looking then at the volumes that we collected as part of this study to kind of look into those a little bit more as well, see kind of the differences along the border. So we're showing the daily volumes here on the map. And so these were collected in March of 2024. You see kind of the highest volumes between 14 and
wet more and just, I guess, for context
a typical four-lane roadway is going to be able to handle about 36,000 vehicles per day. So we're kind of under that thresholds. Not by a lot.
And so then looking at specific intersections, we also collected
accounts at all of the intersections. And so these show the total vehicles that entered that intersection between either the A and B power which would be between like seven and eight or eight and nine the pm peak hour, four to five or five to six.
And so this would not
includes both the First Avenue traffic as well as traffic on the east-west corridors. So we see kind of a little bit of a different story here. We're a river and Grant are going to have a lot more vehicles entering those intersections.
because of the cross traffic versus the traffic that we're seeing on First Avenue.
But we also see that kind of on fourth level where we have those higher traffic volumes up first and not necessarily on the port level. So we kind of have three intersections where we have those high volumes.
then see kind of in the middle here between wentmore and Port Lau a lot of those high volumes driven by the traffic on first avenue
And so to quantify kind of how we're operating as an intersection, we use what is called level of service. And so basically we look at the amount of delay that somebody is expecting at an intersection to quantify how well the intersections graded.
And so we have A through F. Don't think of it like school where D is failing grades. D is actually pretty good for her.
traffic operations, typically you'd see kind of D, A is seen as acceptable, and then EMS when you start to see really a breakdown in traffic and you're maybe waiting for multiple greens to get through an intersection.
And so kind of looking at this corridor, we really aren't seeing a lot of traffic operational issues at the intersection level. There may be movements here or there that operate below what would be acceptable, but this is looking at the intersection as a whole.
we're seeing kind of the lowest hit river and then for a while where we do have those D's, but that would be seen kind of as acceptable under a level of service
And then looking kind of at the corridor, not just the intersections, this data comes from
INREX, which is very similar to replica uses GPS data, uses other big data sources that we have to determine kind of speeds along the corridor and that helps us determine kind of the congestion that we're seeing along the corridor. And so on the left, we have the southbound direction
On the right, we have the northbound direction. It kind of goes with the corridor north and south. So it shows the percentage of the time that we'd be operating in a specific level of service along the corridor. So you can see that the north end of the corridor, we are operating an LOS of A really well.
for almost 70% of the day.
And then we have a couple of areas where we're operating at sea and then D, which is kind of that precipice of not or deteriorating traffic. We're starting to see only three to five percent of the day kind of for the full corridor.
All right.
So this would represent flow.
Yeah, so this represents flow. So the colors represent the speed and so an los a
anything 34 miles per hour and above. And so because the speed limit sat at 35, if you're driving the speed limit or above, that's kind of seen as
you know pre-flow, you're not being stopped by you know too much vehicles. And then as it goes down, Sony is 27 miles per hour, C would be
who said at 20 miles per hour. And so just as you start to slow down, that's a key or shows the congestion along the corridor since you're not able to travel it
You set the speed limit at 35 miles an hour? So for level service, they can go down
26 to 40.
more than 36 miles per hour still level of service level service day.
Anything that represents like
awful lot of search, what I call search traffic on
on first where you just have forever lumps of cards and then you have an empty empty road for an equal amount of time you can go to the next slide. So we broke it also out into time periods and so typically you're going to see kind of the heaviest flows in the AM and the PM and when people are heading to work, heading home, going to dinner, that kind of stuff. And so we do see the one section where we have pretty
We have LOSD, which would be the lowest that we're seeing along the corridor, kind of in that expected segment, we see it for about 15 minutes
from like 4.15 to 4.30
And so it's just one really localized section that's showing up
For 15 minutes that it has that kind of lower speed and higher congestion. What stretch is that? That is on the Prince of Wetmore. So where we have the kind of highest traffic. And that's in the northbound direction.
it is hard to see, you know, from there but
the three times over there, you know.
This is Weaver, way more friends, you know, represented in the ecology.
And then, yeah, moving on to talking about walking
So we collected as part of those signalized intersection counts, we collected pedestrian counts as well. And so the volumes you're seeing are the pedestrians that were at an intersection during the PM peak hour. So we saw a lot at Fort Lowell and Grant, and so we see over 100 in a few hours during those
considerably high considering
the lack of kind of pedestrian facilities along the border and then kind of see jumps to some of the more major intersections. So you're wet more your prince um but you also see a couple of the hawks or the
block crossings that have some high pedestrians so the gray will drive hawk, the Roger and wetmore are not maybe seen as like major intersections, but still have quite a bit of pedestria as well.
A hawk would be the flashing beacon, so the red flashing beacon.
These pedestrians with phones.
These ones weren't cap it. Oh, yeah.
And so all of the data kind of post
replica is all data that we collected with cameras or with tube counts, so putting tubes out on the road where they're
Profit.
So then looking at the sidewalk network along First Avenue, we map kind of where their sidewalks and we're only at about 60% of the corridor having a sidewalk
We have eight signalized organizations that have marked crosswalks.
on two of the pedestrian hybrid beacons along the corridor. And then we do have the connection to the loop of the
We'll see.
And so then we also looked at sidewalk width. So sidewalk width deals with the comfortability of being able to walk on the sidewalk and how many people can be able to use it. And so for this type of corridor, the city of Tucson recommends six to eight feet for a sidewalk. And so you can kind of see that we have 5% that are under four feet, 55% are four to five feet.
And then 40% are greater than five feet. And that is just of that kind of 60% of the corridor that is covered in sidewalk.
I have a question. So back to the hawklands.
um the um
The black glitch hog like this proposed, is that going to go in after First Avenue gets going?
Well, you're actually advancing that project right now. It's received federal funding, so we are going to install the crossing at Blackledge. That is going to be going to construction imminently and will probably be installed three to four years before this project moves.
the black glitch.
That'll be in three to four years? It'll be installed next year
Four years ahead of when this goes. Okay.
Thanks for clarifying.
Can you just define sidewalk? Do you mean like a paved path or you just mean like gravel? Because I feel like there's
It's just a true sidewalk sign.
yeah it's has it's
dedicated space. Okay. Awesome.
That is so
24? 24%. So 24% of the corridor is actually up to
what the city says should be.
Great.
And so then to put kind of a metric to how comfortable it is to walk or what the stress level to walk is, we have a metric called the pedestrian level of traffic stress that comes
from the oregon Department of Transportation. And so what it looks at is sidewalk width, your buffer from the roadway, if there's parking present that's separating you from vehicles, what the speed on the
roadways and just kind of tries to quantify or qualitatively look
how comfortable it is to walk. So that way we have a way to kind of compare different options or look at just how bad kind of a sidewalk or walking situation is.
So on the left is very comfortable, so that would be an LTS one. So the lower the score, the better for your level of traffic stress. And then as you move, and then the undesirable, that's going to be an LTS for
And so I wanted to start with kind of the good on the corridor. We have this map kind of shows
level of traffic stress. So the green shows kind of the best case scenario and then red would be where we have
So we have a buffer that provides an ability for pedestrians to be taken off the street away from vehicles.
And then kind of a little bit wider of a sidewalk
So that would be what kind of pedestrian level of traffic stress one looks like. And so that was kind of the best case scenarios in this two sections of the corridor. And then going into where you guys would be more familiar with, it's kind of that LTS floor. So really uncomfortable. You're right along the roadway. People are going at fast speeds you maybe don't have.
a place to actually walk, you're kind of walking through a uh
on the asphalt through a parking lot, that kind of thing. So it's not really friendly or inviting for pedestrians.
And then talking about hawk crossings, so there are two currently along the corridor. So these serve to help get people across the roadway. They stop the traffic.
And so they provide kind of that low stress crossing and ability to not just have those at major intersections, but along the corridor where people are wanting to cross.
And then getting into biking. So again, we took bike counts so we see kind of
the highest level of bikes at the intersections down near Glen and Blackledge. So this is just kind of one hour in the PMP. So a little bit surprising to see 12 with kind of the lack of facilities there, but we do see kind of that's kind of a low number in terms of like
looking at adding bike facilities typically, but it's one of those where if you encouraging to see that there is still that demand and then we also saw from the original data that there is some of that demand for biking. How long ago did you get this out?
This is for March 21.
Chris, our bike shop is where that 12 is.
Thanks.
If you're? Yeah.
I'll be there on Saturday.
So is there um
I mean, you're talking about like
There's some demand. It looks like there's some demand for biking but there's not
A lot, but I mean, would there be
I mean, we're kind of hoping to shift like induced demand
to favor biking, right? To like design it so that you actually can. Because you'd have to be pretty stupid. That's what this type of project you can't use this data to tell you like the demand so that's where you come back with public surveys with the data showing the one mile is very common trip. And so if people have the bike facilities, they're going to cheat.
staff more than they are today just because they don't have those facilities. Oh, yeah, it's terrible.
So yeah, looking at the bike network, so First Avenue is a bike
route, but you also have a couple of bike routes crossing the corridor currently. So Roger Prince Fort Lowell are all backgrounds with striped shoulders it's not a traditional bike lane even for signage. You have Blackledge, which we kind of hit on is currently a bike route and that would be upgraded into a bike boulevard.
Get off earlier.
So looking at every major bike things that are here now, not a lot. So first of the loop, probably the most comfortable or well-known.
of them, but then looking on the bottom, we have Blackledge as it stands today as kind of unsigned, or not unsigned, but
part of the bike route.
Once you guys know in copper. Copper, we just got federal funds on is going, we're going to do the bike boulevard this year, starting design. So we've already got the bike hawk at copper on this location, but we're going to actually build out the entire network.
We're both going to be under construction.
So again, looking kind of the future bike network, there is planned facilities along uh
First Avenue or cross First Avenue. So you have lumber loss is looking at appropriate allocation or adding bike lanes on that segment, kind of east-west on the northern side. And then like we were talking about, Black Lidge. Moving forward kind of immediately with putting in that boulevard there. So we'll have the hot crossing across First Avenue and then treatments along
I mean, I just…
I was just curious, so we're putting in the, it's great by boulevards, but does that inhibit our planning? Like, is that going to
just putting in those
How does that like affect our planning yeah so the one at copper is already in right now the one on Blackledge, like all that. What are you just like factor it in more? Yeah, it's going to go in it's going to serve its purpose for four years. I think it's going to add increased mobility, make life more usable. And as we go into construction, we'll probably have to relocate it depending on what the alignment is going to be with this. Okay, so it's not like it's set in stone. No, no, no.
Yeah, it can be both on vacation.
Okay. That was wider. It'll be too simple.
You're saying that the black glitch
route will be moved? We'll just move the poles for the hawk when we do construction. So it's going to go in now
If the road changes, the location is all going to change.
So then similar to pedestrian public traffic starts, we have bicycle public traffic stress
So we have a little figure kind of showing
who if the stress level is
force of low stress, you're going to be seeing children, kind of everybody is able to use that. That's going to be under your LTS1. Then as you move to LTS4, that's going to be the semi-professional professional bikers who are very comfortable being in traffic with vehicles.
We have…
level of traffic stress for kind of along the corridor, not having the dedicated bike lane as well as the high speeds and corridor for it to not be a comfortable place to bike and very stressful for anybody who chooses to do so, which we did see people are doing.
Credit to them.
And so the last segment we want to cover for the mobility is transit. And so we looked at the existing transit infrastructure. A major route along
First Avenue is Route 6. So we have 23 stops
Six of those stops have kind of a dedicated bus
area so if that's a shared right turn lane or a bus pull out, but then you have seven
15 of those are in-lane stops. So the majority are kind of that inlay type. We do have eight traffic signals in two hawks. It is encouraging to see the most of the bus stops are within an acceptable distance of
a crossing. So that's something that you don't always see. So good to see that there's the opportunity to use a signalized or hawk crossing to get between the different bus stops. Who picks the bus stops where they get to be? Is that something in the city or does the Sun train?
It's SunTran has that like
ultimate jurisdiction, but it's in cooperation with the city
And then we also, or if you want to stay on
We have quite a few routes that do cross first as well. So there's some connectivity. So those are kind of shown in the blue dots, which might, I guess, be hard to see from a distance.
But we have the Vrong River, the Ragan roster for the sport model and credit. So there are connections that can be happening along the corridor.
So looking at existing transit ridership, hopefully it's a little easy to see, but really we're seeing high volumes at the first half in Grant, and then the first half in Lowell.
or fort level intersections are those stops and so the we have total people getting on total people getting off and then the total people per day who are getting on or off at that.
specific stop. And so between the two, First Avenue and Grant
stops, we have 440 people getting on and off at those locations on the Fort Lowell, we have about 400 people getting on and off at those locations. And so that kind of then goes back to where we were seeing really high pedestrian counts at those intersections. And that kind of matches what we're seeing the transit ridership as well.
Pre-correlating that with anything like grocery stores? Because that's my first thought was two major grocery stores right there or apartments or what have you. Yeah, you see a lot from the destinations there. And so you're seeing a lot more commercial uses.
higher densities. Yeah, we have a database gis we have all the stores and this kind of data and we can visually you can see how they connect
And then the last piece of kind of the training that Operation Live. I'll talk through is just the travel times along the corridor. So what this is really showing is a pretty consistent transit travel times on that quarter. We're not seeing really big differences along different days of the week for a and p.m. So southbound, we're seeing 10 to 11 minutes.
pretty consistently and so there's not a large variation and so that
hopefully leads to people being more confident in the bus and transit system and feeling like the bus is going to be at the stop when they're expecting it to.
And then same kind of northbound, we have a little bit more variation northbound on the weekday where we have 11 to 14 and 14 to 15. So a little bit of variation, but nothing greater than five minutes, which is typically what you would see. It's kind of
a breakdown and uh
the reliability or people trusting that system. And then Saturday, Sunday, seeing 12 to 13 minutes on those so well within what we're also seeing during the weekday so really we're seeing not a lot of breakdown of transit being able to move along the corridor during the different times.
And that is important because you know as indicated conditions, we're putting this data into a model so we can have a very, you know, this is existing conditions, what will happen in the future, how strong it will operate in the future so what we're doing, something you need to explore it as a simulation, which can include and give all the pattern
we do whatever improvement that you guys try, we can evaluate it and say, hey, this is going to be the impacts on an SBM level traffic express or bicycle or space, what's on branding
several times.
Any questions that you're going to put us?
I think that's a lot of it.
Go ahead.
Thank you for all that's be available to us online. Yeah, we can provide a PDF and
Have a good night.
That's it.
You guys have seen the schedule before, but really we're
We're right here and we're starting to work over into this, the framework of development
My existing edition stuff
A little more here, but we're starting to kind of have this little bit of a transition over into now what do we do with it and how do we apply it
So this is what Patrick came up with. Sorry, design concept report
Again, existing conditions, but now we're going to start stocking a little bit of
Roadway design is what actually goes into it. And so this is what Patrick has done transportation 101.
Yeah, no, that was your idea.
The building blocks, roadway building blocks.
And really, we all have a very inherent understanding of what a roadway is, what sidewalks are, what bike lanes are but
Well, my goal with this is to
get us to think about, help you guys think about it in the same way that
we have to think about it as the engineers and designers.
And we use, this is complete streak, so is this the city's new street design guide
This is the first project the city has done.
fully within this first big major corridoral projects like our team project we've got smaller scale stuff. So us at HDR, we like to
say that we've been doing retreats before they were complete streets, before they had that moniker. Prior to complete streets, the context sensitive solutions, kind of like the trending buzzword um
But really, it's these things. We're designed for the most vulnerable users
And then we're working from the inside or from the outside to the inside.
The vehicles are the vehicles, the cars are the cars, those folks in general are safe and they're going to continue
can move up and down the roadway very efficiently for the most part and
without much, unless there's congestion
They're fine. So we want to focus on
the outside where the bikes are, where the pedestrians are.
And this is, so this graphic here is also from street design guide but
they defined it, the city defined it using zones or realms, so pedestrian
the street itself and then
median and what this allows us to do is really prioritize. Christy hinted on it or started that conversation a little bit with
These are the challenges, what challenges are most important to you as part of the survey that helps us identify how we prioritize the space that's out there.
So these are the major zones but we have
The frontage, that's everything.
that's back, really.
to the outside sidewalks.
planting and amenities, that's going to be between your sidewalk and your roadway, kind of this area
your pipeline
We use a couple different terminologies. If I say curb lane or an outside lane, that's going to be your vehicle lane that's closest
That's the one on the edge of the road. Inside lane, that's going to be your
inside the language in the middle.
And then the medium just
in the middle of between the directions. And so this is, we've talked about 100 foot right away um we've
You've mentioned it, we've shown some of the graphics from the
Jesus doesn't say that Philippine Kittleson did a few years ago. This is directly the section from
the street design guide from the city this is kind of that preferred alternative
where we get everything we want.
more or less. Yeah. Is the right of way, the 100 feet is that
clear now is have you
purchased any
And so that's kind of the exercise of the roll quads. I brought the plot if you guys want to see it and you have time, we can roll that back up again.
we're starting we have a preliminary idea of where it is because to define that you got to go and survey everything you got to pull in all the historical records
you have to map it out very accurately because that is actually the ultimate legal documentation. In some places we have
much more than 100 feet along the corridor
In some places we have some places
down to like 75 to 80.
along the corridor.
So that becomes a challenge, and then that becomes how do we
prioritized through those areas or what can we do can we design can we how do we work smartly through ways to make it all work
And so I just want to talk through each of these zones a little bit.
This is really a lot fainter than I was hoping.
But so this frontage zone that's going to be
The city wants a two foot minimum and that's at the very back so we'll
we would say, when I say back
of something like back of sidewalk bets
the edge that's furthest away from the road.
front of sidewalk will be the edge that's close to the road.
So if I say backup sidewalk here, this frontage
They're between the back of the sidewalk and the right of way. And that's really to provide a buffer
to make it more comfortable to walk, to allow construction you know we have
If your sidewalk's comfortable and you have to get a maintenance crew out there to work on it.
that allows them to work fully within the city's property
As opposed to having to get a permit to work on
someone's private property to do that work, right? This is this kind of front zone um
the minimums to put it allows us to put other things back there, light poles
our goals, you can't always do that, but ideally we want those away
Maximum, there's
We could get another 20 or 30 to 40 feet, great, because we can just landscape and make it nice and
But that minimum that we're looking for on a program like this is too but
So here's just some examples.
This is downtown. This is actually on Turst. It's right by our office
where a very urban environment, you've got that you can see you just got a couple of feet there
landscape a little bit buffer but it provides
provide some space for the pedestrians
Again here, I'm not sure where this Patrick was. This picture was patrick, but…
That's okay.
We've got a little bit of jog, though. The second one, that's Stone, just north of downtown. This is Stone north of downtown. And then this is broadway
On the north side of Broadway down like between Craycroft and Wilmont, where you just have this really wide
big um
frontage area.
Pay attention to things like this though.
We always keep a big an eye out for this so
Even though we have a nice wide sidewalk with this manhole here.
This becomes hard to navigate for someone in a wheelchair.
Or it's very slippy for you
If it happens to be wet, put it bigger into the sun.
I think it illustrates as well how that interface between land use and development and the transportation system because there is kind of a heavy medium.
You want a building set a little bit off the sidewalk so you're not crowding pedestrians and making them feel like they need to step away, not utilizing that space, making it tight. But you don't want them set so far back that the sidewalk is feeling
They kind of isolated when you're on a sidewalk between a big parking lot or a big landscape field in the road, you feel isolated, you feel uncomfortable, you feel exposed. So those are some examples of how pulling the buildings actually closer to the sidewalk can give a better sense of enclosure, a better sense of safety and comfort, and actually provide shade to pedestrians as another means of accomplishing that out in the trees. Now, we're not doing land use planning as part of this corridor.
But we might be moving the corridor a little bit closer to the buildings. We'll show some pictures. So it's something to keep in mind, too, that those two things, how they interplay in kind of that public realm.
So, and then sidewalk
It's going to be any improved surface, but it's so to your
Question, Carolyn. It is typically concrete.
And that's just a much more durable material. It's really top concrete
Legally.
you don't have to provide a sidewalk.
It's not a requirement there's no requirement
there's no necessity to do that.
However, if you do choose to provide a sidewalk, it has to meet certain requirements so
The forefoot, that's actually a federal standard
you can go based on like ADA, Disability Act requirements
You could go down to a three foot for a very short distance just to avoid an obstruction but
We use four foot as the minimum standard
And then the city could actually the city's old standard history lesson
If your sidewalk was separate from your road, the four foot was the minimum standard.
It was right adjacent to the road against the curb and the fight
The problem with four feet though is
You can't walk two people side by side on four feet or you can't cross.
I mean, I'm not a big guy, but like Kashmir and I couldn't walk
side by side on a sidewalk together it's just
you know that's for one person, one direction
And so that's why the city's preferred statistics.
And we've been doing it we've done wider than we've done some tins of sidewalks.
in the downtown area, he's done, I think, 12 sidewalks over there.
the past two. So really no maximum
other than cost is kind of a limiting factor.
Really, though, this makes it comfortable for the pedestrians and it allows folks
in wheelchairs and other mobility devices.
Again, some examples. So this would be a five foot sidewalk that's separated
you know it's
pretty comfortable pretty easy to use. Certainly could be better, but that's really good for
the vast majority of your users.
Again, this is one that's kind of hard to see.
where you have a standard five foot section here, but then you have this piece
Over here, it kind of meanders and opens up in the mountain just allows
a little more space. And then this is actually on
I live…
I'm out here all the time. This is like right near my neighborhood
Instead of a sidewalk, there's actually a 12-foot multi-use path
and pedestrians.
it's further away.
But again, that would qualify as your sidewalking area.
Sorry, wrong terminology.
So between the sidewalk and our curb
we want to have more space.
And that's where that's where
So amenity zone but that's
This is the space where we can put
like street furniture, benches
landscape bushes. If we have six feet, we can get trees in there. It's less than six feet we can't
That's kind of where this preferred minimum comes from. Preferred, though, if we get eight to 12, then you get lots of stuff in there.
You can also, this is where you can bring in like your bus pullouts
I don't have to move my sidewalk, but I've got this
eight to 12 foot area that I can now take for a short distance. We can put a bus blot in right there. I'm not impacting
Anything else? This is great for utilities.
especially power poles or fire hydrants. Fire hydrants have to be a certain distance from the curb. That's a regulatory thing.
So this is really where a lot of this
where a lot of this planting area comes in.
But this does take a lot of space. So that is one of the big challenges with this.
getting this strip in everywhere and a lot of times this is kind of one of the first areas that we
Because we prioritize the sidewalks and the bike lanes.
this area a lot of times.
And who does like the upkeep for
or like what's to be planted
the city. Yeah, okay.
And they got on this dispatcher. Yeah, I'm just saying there's a couple different options we can look at too. So we've got more kind of natural landscape areas in some areas of the city where we have kind of green infrastructure incorporated, but we can also look at using like decorative pavers to kind of hardscape it, which kind of expands the functional usable space of the sidewalk. The trade-off is it's kind of a less natural setting, but you can use tree wells.
And grades for planting has more kind of an urban context. So again, this is an area that I think adds greatly to pedestrian comfort and adds greenery to the corridor, enhances the aesthetics, but is also the most difficult thing to probably get into these corridors because it's the easiest thing to cut when it comes to
that space, that 12 feet, or taking somebody's property
The only other thing I would add is offsetting it from the roadway really increases the ability to give level walks
So a lot of older areas of the city, you hit driveways and all of a sudden you're walking at an angle. That's what the function of kind of putting the sidewalk back occur. So when we separate it from the curb, we can run those sidewalks straight across the driveways, keep the pedestrians at a level instead of dropping them down to the driveway level, which is a much comfortable or miserable.
full and safer experience. There's a lot of value for that. There is there's a
This makes my job way easier as an engineer. The wider I can make this space.
the better the easier it is to make everything work together and then
with the sidewalks and stuff too where you see those areas around town
or if you've walked on them where you're walking and all of a sudden you have a driveway to a business and you feel like you're walking like this
manually we can't do that anymore.
That's because of the ADA requirements and
Because of all that regulation that was passed. And starting in the 90s
That's not allowed anymore so
we have to we have to really try to get these areas.
I got some more pictures of too. So do we need to design for TEP in this? We will coordinate with them. We don't have to design the toilet.
like do they do they have to run their poles down
this corridor or can they
move those
elsewhere.
We could talk for hours.
putting in TP.
The easy answer is they are located in public right-of-way by franchise agreement with the city. So they are required
to avoid the conflict. If we change the existing conditions.
they're required to avoid that.
At the same time.
Sometimes they have a prior rights agreement where the city could be responsible for those costs.
Sometimes it's not possible sometimes like there's just so many other things
that can influence what
TEP does.
then it's just it becomes it's it's a long coordination effort with them to
Because they want to simplify. They have motivation to simplify their design. You clean things up and make it simple as well so
there's a lot of back and forth.
But the easy answer is
they are required to.
That's always a starting point. So here are some of these areas too where
This is downtown where Patrick mentioned that's just this page with concrete. We have some hotlines out there by some separation
some street furniture.
This is actually on Broadway. This is Broadway Boulevard just east of
If you click, which is actually Jeanette and I did that project with HDR.
Very proud of that one. This is where we have a big wide area.
And we put some nice planting and water harvesting as a base
Some areas like that. That's another long, complicated project.
That actually wants something to work for us. How big is that planting strip there, would you say? This is…
12 to 16 feet in this.
That's part of the quarter one.
We didn't have a lot of area.
And there's something I'll talk about a little more with what we're looking at at First Avenue.
In some areas when we're really constrained on broadway
And so because of buildings and structures, so we made it tight, but then in other areas where we weren't
we kind of moved out to really much nicer things.
So bicycle lanes, we all know bike lane
another history lesson, the old city standard
If you didn't have a curb, if it was just a paved edge
You only needed a four foot striped area that was considered
a bicycle lane if you had a curb, then you were required to fight the bicycle.
That's super uncomfortable. But if I explain this.
It's what's out there on First Avenue. It's very, very, very uncomfortable.
But the minimum is five foot
But the burn is 8 to 11. And when we say 8 to 11,
there's this separation
in here that's included with that. What we don't want to provide
is an eight-foot bike lane with no separation yeah because that turns into a certain light. So that's what we don't want to do
I hope there's the one on Mountain Avenue. Is that about…
About nine feet, I think. Okay. It does have a textured buffer in it.
Kind of works, but… We just funded a protected bike lane project on the mountain. We will be starting that this year. So from Speedway to Fort Wall, we will be installing protective buddy, which is sweet. Yay.
Just for reference.
pretty comfortable right i mean it's yeah great
The big thing is with the tech pipelines, they really increase age barriers and prices.
They're a fantastic thing.
challenges. Again, it's more space um
But you do have big challenges with
frequency of driveways, access points because you do have to provide access so you have to break this
somehow. And then actually drainage is a really big issue too
Most of our roadways
train up to the edges and then we have our you know short range catch bases and stuff on the edge
So we have to make sure that we're not diverting water where it's not going. We still have to be able to catch that water where.
So drainage becomes
Definitely a concern with your work stream.
But it's a solvable one.
So, um.
Again, kind of worst to best
Also, I don't know how to…
just a five foot bike lane. I actually ride in that bike lane myself
Because even though there's that big 12-foot side path I showed you or that path for
buying some positions. There's so many pedestrians out there and then that
site I used to ride my bike on that same path
It's so offset.
from the roadway that people don't
I was actually had more close calls on a bike riding out there because people don't see
So I have switched and I ride in this bike lane and it drives my wife crazy, but I actually feel a lot safer.
doing that. That's actually a six foot bike lane. So it's a little more. This is on Broadway where
We have a six foot bike lane and then we just have a strike buffer out there
that's a two foot buffer to spread a little bit of space
I don't know where this one was, but this is one. Oh, this is St. Mary's. Actually, we did this. HDR did this. This was the first protected
social protected with physical separation where they have just the bollocks out here.
This is St. Mary's. Here I-10, and this is one
The competing firm that I will not name.
getting this one going, this is Broadway going into downtown where there's actually a
a concrete curve that separates and this actually allows for
by traveling both ways.
So I mentioned drainage being one. You can't really see it, but there's a big old catch basin right here.
breaks in the breaks it's perfectly a lot large to get there.
And then I threw this picture in here. One of the reasons
We don't want to stick with just a five foot bike lane
is because when we do have these catch basins.
there's this apron. We call it an apron that's out in front of it
that sticks out into the bike lane and it's actually, it's got a pretty good suppression on it. So it's not something there's like two to three inch drop on those
So you basically just cut out this section of bike lane.
that he didn't have this buffer, now I've got maybe
two and a half to three feet this where the you're pushing that cyclist further up to the road.
So that's why we like to put them up in so we can
just give a little space around those.
As far as those buffers go, because I love them. I mean, just you talk about feeling comfortable yeah makes me feel much more comfortable with that buffer there. Do you have any data that suggests that
It's safer like there's less
near missiles or anything like that when you have data on everything. Patrick's got it. So the double leopard ones have the physical separator perform about the same as a regular bike. And I think the user experience is better. They're more comfortable.
But even the flex post protected by Quinns, there's just a recent study that came out that shows that they reduced bike to vehicle crashes by 50%. Somebody could drive right over. And it was a pretty extensive study. It's four stars from FHWA, four out of five stars, which is a high standard.
So those are extremely effective.
They don't look as nice. They don't are as durable. We want to get some concrete in there, but I think it's evidence that those vertical elements really do hand safety.
And the city started putting, if you drive around
Start paying attention. The city started doing
stuff like this, or there is some sort of physical protection just about
everywhere or for the community.
We all know what travel wins are. Well, what do they have to be this is really it
And we really have to, this will be a four-lane section. So we have that curb lane
And the inside lane.
Preferred his 11 foot the maximum.
is 11 foot but on that
curb laying on the outside
when we're accommodating larger vehicles like a bus
We need that one to be 11 feet.
Regulatory vehicle is eight and a half a white vehicle can't be wider than eight and a half feet
Outside and tired, outside the tire. Body's supposed to be, vehicle body is supposed to be AP.
But you get six inches, three inches on each side for tires um
But that doesn't account for like mirrors on buses.
That's not considered vehicle body. And so mayors on buses, they can actually be 10 and a half meters. So they're very variable.
But they can really get out to that close 11 foot
So this is why on these outside lanes
We go with 11 feet but then on the inside lane, we can reduce that down
to 10 feet.
And we've done that in a lot of places and
It works. It's not, you know, you almost introduced me talking
Planes were 12 feet across the board.
back in the day and that's
that has been changing. The county changed first
cities now changed their standards, and that is
Then there's some evidence that that 10 foot it just
As a driver, you feel it.
And so you naturally just tend to slow down.
I have the middle lane on Broadway.
There was just a study of many international study that came out, I think, from John Hopkins called like narrow way and save lives or something. They basically show that there was no
safety impact from going from a 12 to 10 foot lane. In fact, it performs a little bit more safely, but what it does is it does cut the slow speed down a little bit without safety consequences. You don't see a big uptick in side sweat. So things are serious injuries.
So it's an opportunity to save us a couple of feet in the roadway that we could reallocate again using that outside in approach.
two bike lanes landscaping
without really having an impact on safety. Makes people drive more cautiously. It is. Pay attention. Yeah, I pay attention. What I think it's doing, this is my opinion. I don't know if there's evidence that Patrick P may know better than me, but it's reducing, it's really reducing that speed differential
the 12 foot, it's easy to speed on. We have 10 foot
And so you have people speeding on tofu lanes and you got people following the speed limit. And there's a big speed difference, a bigger speed differential
And you go down to these narrower lanes.
it's reducing that speed differential and more people are obedient to it
What's the existing width?
Now, that's a good question. I don't know.
Do you know.
was the existing language on First Avenue? I'd be willing to bet it's 11 or 12. Most of the city are 11 or 12. There's a couple up here on Country Club. Those are 10. Those are pretty tight. Speedway, east of Alvernon is like 10 foot. Those are pretty tight. You feel it when you get through that section. It slows people down.
I knew when we were done here, I'll make sure it real quick.
Oh, the convenience, Tom.
We say the minimum width is 10 foot. That's what you would need for a turn.
You're going to have just a straight turn lane like that, that's still there now you would want
at least 10 feet.
Preferred is at least 12 because that gives you a little bit
If you're just sitting in the middle and internally and you know it's only 10 foot, it can be a little uncomfortable. So just as a driver, even in a vehicle.
We have 12 in the middle. You do feel a lot more comfortable.
When we say 14
plus for maximum
Oh.
Turn lanes, especially if you have medians that center internally accommodates U-turns as well. And sometimes you need some extra width
to allow for the U-terms to accommodate. It allows for offset intersection offset lanes and intersections
for term lanes and things like that. Sometimes you want that median separation running down
you know to control access at turn lanes
You don't necessarily want to allow
left turns right at an intersection
you know you want to you want to control that because you don't want to elevate those conflicting movements
And so sometimes you do, you know, you do want to bump it out beyond that 14 feet.
Sometimes these dual turn lanes
Triple pair nights, Patrick? That's on the east side, not on Turst Avenue.
And then lastly, the minimum for pedestrian refuge. If we're going to allow someone to cross
half the roadway and then cross again into two separate movements. We need the front right of these six
Again, too, there are a lot of benefits to
safety benefits to
putting in medians and controlling really is what you're doing is where you're controlling where
People can make movements and you're limiting conflict.
And that is a huge, huge, huge.
One of the biggest impacts is on pedestrians. I think we've all seen it on First Avenue where people are standing in the center turn lane waiting to make that two-stage crossing. You're putting them up on a curb in a refuge area so it's a safer place. So we know pedestrians are crossing outside of signals, outside of crosswalks. This makes that a much safer behavior and reduces pedestrian crashes by 46% up to
So it's one of those things that we're designing around the existing condition. We're not designing around the behavior we want to see, but the behavior we actually observe. And that's kind of the major benefit
comedians.
So this is some median pictures.
Again, Bradwick, we had a nice white meeting in the area, so we were able to get some saguaros and
So water harvesting bases. Looks good. This is a great road actually just north of campbell
Or Campbell, just north of Grant. Yeah, sorry. Thank you.
This…
And so, yeah, you know, just Senator Turnling that they are putting some
you know just the landscaping needs out there. And then this one is
If you've driven the new Maraza Parkway
That's the connection from the
aviation and Broadway intersection up to 6th Street. It's tough to see if you want to close a look later. This is actually the streetcar facility
And then this is the municipal railroad tracks
This is one where we still needed separation and i
I apologize for the picture being so small, but I wanted to show what we had going on here. We still needed the separation, but we didn't have the space.
So this is really just a two-foot
just a really narrow two foot median and then we got down here
This is just a four foot strike, double yellow strike
We needed the separation, but we didn't have the space for it. This is how we
solve that issue. And then we went
We have the physical meeting here because we needed to limit turns here because of visibility
But then once we were done through this area, there was nowhere to turn.
So we weren't limiting movements
So we could eliminate that and just eliminate that
But provide the straight offer.
And then this is kind of this
How do we begin to prioritize this now? The ideal is 100 feet. If we could have 100 feet plus on the first evidence everywhere.
That would be fantastic.
These are all three pictures.
from Broadway where it's
We have three very different things going on. This is in the West End down just east of you put
We had lots of space, lots of room
going to be on 12 foot pass, lots of space over here, big medium um
you know lots of landscape. This is one of those areas where we just have lots
the county and the city had acquired land space. Historically, it was there the city already owned it
we wanted to utilize it as best we could.
This is just a little bit east of there, up in this area.
We had some buildings run up close. It's tough to see but
this like this stretch through here, we fully eliminated that planting zone
In between, but we were able to save buildings for that. That was a math project
saving buildings, not demolishing buildings was like the number one priority
from the public in the city. So we did everything we could to save them
But then again.
And I apologize for Missy and we didn't
We'll talk a lot more about this in the year to come. We had issues with driveways and stuff like that. So the side doors going up and down.
that was one of those things that had to give, but it allowed us to
same buildings, not much properties.
Again, kind of same thing here. We end up with this really narrow median
We didn't want to touch these buildings.
really narrow mediums, but here's DP. They had big falls. We had to work with them.
They're way closer than we would like but
They didn't really have any other options but
You know, we push things around you can see
It's just kind of both what's key is
We never sacrifice the bike lane or the buffer.
We never sacrifice the sidewalk. We got a minimum six foot everywhere
we just we work through these others and that was that prioritization
What is more important
And it's these most overwhelming issues so that's
That's kind of how we solve the issues here.
And again, this can be six foot, three foot buffer. We have 11 foot. This is a little narrow 10 foot and actually this guy on the inside.
dysfunctionally.
driven from Broadway.
It works.
It doesn't store it really well so
That's kind of where we're headed with this. So a lot of that
that's prioritization in this framework on how we
define what's most important, how we set those metrics, how we set those goals as we do it
Here in the next few months, working with you guys we're going to
people in a lot of that survey data
you know what is most important obviously safety is
pretty young. I mean, that was up there on all the incoming survey data to begin with.
We know some very accident-prone portals that's going to be on top of all of our lists.
I don't know.
How do we hung babies?
then what are we how do you prioritize that?
that was that was it for me.
I've gone a little long.
I'll share this out yet.
I got a question just came for the open house last week, and on the way home, I drove first and I just noted how many lights are out. And I know you talked about that hawk going in right away to help with things.
You guys have plans to actually change the bulbs on those? So this is a bit of a crisis that we're facing citywide right now. What has happened is we've just seen it
huge increase in the last couple of months in wire theft. People are opening up the streetlights, tying them to their bumpers and driving and just stripping the wires out and selling them all mountains out, I just pulled that in. So mountain north like land, same thing. People are just going light to light.
We're at about a three month backlog on it because we just can't keep up and we're putting them in and they're hitting the same holes again. Is there a solar option that you could…
You've experimented with the solar, it's just not very reliable and a lot of the parts are proprietary. So if the company goes out of business, we're sitting on this asset that we can't then service. Very expensive, too. The poles are about three to five grand a piece. And then the battery packs either would be replaced like every, yeah. What about like just some duct tape and a flashlight?
fill them with dirt, filling them with…
So people can get just trying to put up obstacles to making it more difficult. Historically, these have kind of been solid with the price of copper, so hopefully copper goes down again. No.
I think we need to wrap up. I just got a quick question for you guys. So we got to be out of here by 8. It's a little earlier. A, is this a better facility for everybody?
Would you prefer to continue meeting here? Mr. Chair, just…
A lot more comfortable than the benches. Yeah. Would you be amenable to potentially shifting the meeting time forward to like 545 or is six a hard start for folks like because you've got other obligations? We're just thinking because we need to be out at a certain time, we just can start a little earlier because that's more time. There's a lot of content meetings.
545 works. Yeah.
The people who are attending tonight can all make it again.
Great. So one final question. Sorry, Chris, if I'm just kind of taking over here.
We would technically have two more meetings to round out the year. We were thinking we could meet in November. It's far enough away from the Thanksgiving holiday. I think it wouldn't interfere with travel plans. It's the third Thursday. Canceling the December meeting and then reconvening in January. Does that sound about right to everybody? Sure.
All right. We'll make it so.
Okay. You do next time.
It's kind of a turn. All right. I have to adjourn. All right. I'll second that.
Third.
Thank you guys.
And I can say all the things